PRISON - Page 2

laurie479 · March 14th, 2010, 09:13 PM

Why are we comparing prison and a mental institution?? Prison is punishment for breaking the law, a mental institution is to treat someone with a disease,,,,the stigma against the mentally ill is still strong these days

cutefunnybbw · March 15th, 2010, 02:01 AM

Personally, I don't feel it is anyone's business to know anything upfront unless said person feels they would like to disclose the information. This is a perfect example as to why.

People can be very abrasive and judgmental. What an individual may have been incarcerated or in a mental facility for may have an impact on whom chooses to date them as well as associate with them.

To say women deserve better than someone whom was incarcerated or needed medical assistance with their mental illness some what saddens me. Neither should be a deal breaker without knowing the full story and what occurred. I wouldn't want to be judged for my past so why should I immediately judge someone else?

Being in a mental institution shouldn't even have a negative connotation to it. Many mental states are actual illnesses. As an example, if a person has a mental breakdown due to something traumatic in their life and they sought treatment at a facility, why would I think less of them? I wouldn't.

Same with a person whom was incarcerated for something minor like a bounced check or parking tickets. Why would I miss out on possibly getting to know a great person over an obstacle in their life which occurred prior to me being in their life? Seems rather insensitive and harsh.

As with anything, there are many variables which should make a difference or not in the degree and extent of an individual's past and should be considered as such prior to just dismissing them altogether.

Just as I would not want a person to judge me and assume I am fat from being lazy and sitting around eating all day without asking me or discussing the matter first, I would not assume nor judge others.

Stigmas and stereotypes can be very harmful in our society. I would think as people of size, we all would understand this as we are harshly subjected to the aforementioned ourselves.

This is all in my opinion of course. To each their own

Mark11779 · March 15th, 2010, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by resilver

ladies the standards should be a BIT higher don't we think???

Becki....you answered your own question..

We've allowed our moral standards and acceptance to decline. Time was when people who served time in prison were socially ostracized once they were released. Misdemeanors were more easily forgiven and if you committed a Felony you were almost NEVER accepted back into certain social circles.

I cant accept someone in my life thats a Felon... I am sorry, but to commit a Felony requires conscious criminal thought. You have to really put some thought into committing one... that shows INTENT. Misdemeanors are a little different. To me some are much more forgivable than others.

But we as individuals have to ask ourselves and examine what we want in our lives.. Ask yourself the Following....

"Do I want a drug Dealer for a Boy/Girlfriend and do I want them around my kids?"

"Can I trust a convicted Felon in my home when I am at work?"

"Can I trust a convicted criminal 100% of the time around my home, children and Loved ones? Can I be totally sure that they will never commit these acts again?"

Recidivist rates among convicted Criminals are very high.. Most come out of prison better criminals than when they went in... all they do is hone their skills to get better so they wont get caught the next time.

Sorry to say.... I'll never accept a Felon as a partner.... my kids are more important and I will never expose them to that...

resilver · March 15th, 2010, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by laurie479

Why are we comparing prison and a mental institution?? Prison is punishment for breaking the law, a mental institution is to treat someone with a disease,,,,the stigma against the mentally ill is still strong these days

Not comparing them as the same as far as punishment vs. illness HOWEVER if you have been in a mental institution for schizophrenia and are not always compliant with your meds, i believe the person you are going to date deserves that information...

I have mental illness in my family that is why it is an issue for me as a mom it was a question to spark discussion not to ostracize anyone...but i do honestly believe that if you are a convicted felon or have been institituionalized for mental illness, you are obligated to reveal that so that others can make an informed decision about how much of you they wish to have you their lives...

March 15th, 2010, 01:48 PM

It's nice to see a man who has standards too.

Originally Posted by Mark11779

Becki....you answered your own question..

We've allowed our moral standards and acceptance to decline. Time was when people who served time in prison were socially ostracized once they were released. Misdemeanors were more easily forgiven and if you committed a Felony you were almost NEVER accepted back into certain social circles.

I cant accept someone in my life thats a Felon... I am sorry, but to commit a Felony requires conscious criminal thought. You have to really put some thought into committing one... that shows INTENT. Misdemeanors are a little different. To me some are much more forgivable than others.

But we as individuals have to ask ourselves and examine what we want in our lives.. Ask yourself the Following....

"Do I want a drug Dealer for a Boy/Girlfriend and do I want them around my kids?"

"Can I trust a convicted Felon in my home when I am at work?"

"Can I trust a convicted criminal 100% of the time around my home, children and Loved ones? Can I be totally sure that they will never commit these acts again?"

Recidivist rates among convicted Criminals are very high.. Most come out of prison better criminals than when they went in... all they do is hone their skills to get better so they wont get caught the next time.

Sorry to say.... I'll never accept a Felon as a partner.... my kids are more important and I will never expose them to that...

markN · March 15th, 2010, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mark11779

Becki....you answered your own question..

We've allowed our moral standards and acceptance to decline. Time was when people who served time in prison were socially ostracized once they were released. Misdemeanors were more easily forgiven and if you committed a Felony you were almost NEVER accepted back into certain social circles.

I cant accept someone in my life thats a Felon... I am sorry, but to commit a Felony requires conscious criminal thought. You have to really put some thought into committing one... that shows INTENT. Misdemeanors are a little different. To me some are much more forgivable than others.

But we as individuals have to ask ourselves and examine what we want in our lives.. Ask yourself the Following....

"Do I want a drug Dealer for a Boy/Girlfriend and do I want them around my kids?"

"Can I trust a convicted Felon in my home when I am at work?"

"Can I trust a convicted criminal 100% of the time around my home, children and Loved ones? Can I be totally sure that they will never commit these acts again?"

Recidivist rates among convicted Criminals are very high.. Most come out of prison better criminals than when they went in... all they do is hone their skills to get better so they wont get caught the next time.

Sorry to say.... I'll never accept a Felon as a partner.... my kids are more important and I will never expose them to that...

Nice post - BRAVO!

laurie479 · March 15th, 2010, 04:40 PM

Ok, I see where the confusion was for me. In Becki's original post, she said:
"If someone joins AMPLE or facebook or whatever.....and he/she has just gotten out of jail, prison, a mental instiute, rehab, etc....

do they have an obligation to tell people???" My answer is, OF COURSE NOT! Why should you have to divulge this information to people on the same website as you! Facebook and Bill do not do background checks to be a member of this or any social networking site.

However, Becki I believe you were actually talking about DATING this person, am I correct? That's a totally different situation and yes, I think that information should be shared..but not necessarily right away. Unless someone was incarcerated for an extremly violent crime, or any type of sexual assault, I believe it can be told when the time is right. Think about it, when first dating, you are both trying to figure out if you trust the other person....I wouldn't go blurting out my past(say I was incarcerated) so someone I just met-they may be maliscious and spread the word to everyone.

cpl4fun2636 · March 15th, 2010, 06:49 PM

People get locked up for many reasons... and many are innocent. There are many "RAPISTS" now free after years of incarceration becasue dna showed they did not commit the crime. Once a person is released the debt is paid... end of story. There is no more obligation to the public unless they are on probation or a registry... and registries are public information you can research. In fact convicted sex offenders are not allowed on facebook.

In fact let me tell you a story... my partner (I am federal officer) was in fact ordered incarcerated once. (though he never served any time) he was in the midwest and his car broke down, so he paid to have it fixed. Spending that money he was unable to make his child support payment that week. He was current to date at that point. His ex took him to court for Contempt for that payment. Her lawyer argued that by spending it on the car he "willfully neglected" to follow the court ordered payment. The judge agreed and he was found guilty of contempt. The judge ordered him incarcerated sentence suspended for 2 weeks for him to make the payment. If he didn't he would serve his time. he made the payment and didn't go to prison... but on paper he is an ex con... should he have to tell people?

People have a right to privacy... unless you are in some type of personal relationship with someone you are entitled to NOTHING. NOT EVEN A PROFILE PICTURE.

Do i think my kids, property and life deserve an honest and worthwhile person? You are damned right.. but I will reserve my right to learn about a person and judge them for myself. If you want to pre judge them that is on you. I carry no prejudice or bias.

Originally Posted by resilver

I am sooo not saying!! But i will say im somewhat surprised almost SHOCKED at the attitude about someone who has been incarcerated....while i understand everyone is entitled to a second chance...if you are a convicted FELON i or have been in a mental institute it would seem that you are obligated to tell people that from the get go...maybe because of what i do for work or because im a mom i'm more cynical but dayum...ladies the standards should be a BIT higher don't we think???

Don't you all believe you deserve better than someone who has been incarcerate???

I may come off as a snob but if you had my job for 25 years you would see people for what they are and those who have been incarcerated RARELY if ever change....

SHEWOLF74 · March 15th, 2010, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by cpl4fun2636

People get locked up for many reasons... and many are innocent. There are many "RAPISTS" now free after years of incarceration becasue dna showed they did not commit the crime. Once a person is released the debt is paid... end of story. There is no more obligation to the public unless they are on probation or a registry... and registries are public information you can research. In fact convicted sex offenders are not allowed on facebook.

In fact let me tell you a story... my partner (I am federal officer) was in fact ordered incarcerated once. (though he never served any time) he was in the midwest and his car broke down, so he paid to have it fixed. Spending that money he was unable to make his child support payment that week. He was current to date at that point. His ex took him to court for Contempt for that payment. Her lawyer argued that by spending it on the car he "willfully neglected" to follow the court ordered payment. The judge agreed and he was found guilty of contempt. The judge ordered him incarcerated sentence suspended for 2 weeks for him to make the payment. If he didn't he would serve his time. he made the payment and didn't go to prison... but on paper he is an ex con... should he have to tell people?

People have a right to privacy... unless you are in some type of personal relationship with someone you are entitled to NOTHING. NOT EVEN A PROFILE PICTURE.

Do i think my kids, property and life deserve an honest and worthwhile person? You are damned right.. but I will reserve my right to learn about a person and judge them for myself. If you want to pre judge them that is on you. I carry no prejudice or bias.

Great POST !!!!
there are many BAD seeds out there.... but, there are also good people who got bad raps.... there are good people, NORMAL, everyday joe kinda people who made mistakes..... sometimes i think the 'rules' of law making take some things TOO far....
for example --- the 17yo football player a few years ago.... who got the BJ from the 15 y/o girl.... it was consensual, and he got 10 years, and had to register as a sex offender..... that is just OVERKILL! There are too many stories like that.....
lets look at the extenuating circumstances, and stop making 'blanket' sentences....

misspatty232 · March 15th, 2010, 09:26 PM

i refuse to believe that people cannot be rehabilitated. and i refuse to believe it because i have known convicted felons who were rehabilitated. im not going to go into details. but if i was a felon who did my time and changed my life, i would keep it a secret until i knew a could trust a person not to tell my business to the world. ESPECIALLY after reading these posts!!! i understand how uncomfortable it makes people...but you cant just write people off! it depends on the crime and whether that person takes responsibility for their life. if someone makes horrible mistakes when they are 19 or 20, and they serve their time(maybe get a degree, contribute to society, make amends) are you gonna say they should be ostracized when they are 50 or 60?? life isnt so black & white.

March 14th, 2010, 09:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
laurie479 ~RazzleDazzle~ Posts: 891 Thanks: 28 Thanked 65 Times in 34 Posts My Mood:	Re: PRISON Why are we comparing prison and a mental institution?? Prison is punishment for breaking the law, a mental institution is to treat someone with a disease,,,,the stigma against the mentally ill is still strong these days

March 15th, 2010, 02:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
cutefunnybbw Senior Member Posts: 404 Thanks: 17 Thanked 57 Times in 38 Posts	Re: PRISON Personally, I don't feel it is anyone's business to know anything upfront unless said person feels they would like to disclose the information. This is a perfect example as to why. People can be very abrasive and judgmental. What an individual may have been incarcerated or in a mental facility for may have an impact on whom chooses to date them as well as associate with them. To say women deserve better than someone whom was incarcerated or needed medical assistance with their mental illness some what saddens me. Neither should be a deal breaker without knowing the full story and what occurred. I wouldn't want to be judged for my past so why should I immediately judge someone else? Being in a mental institution shouldn't even have a negative connotation to it. Many mental states are actual illnesses. As an example, if a person has a mental breakdown due to something traumatic in their life and they sought treatment at a facility, why would I think less of them? I wouldn't. Same with a person whom was incarcerated for something minor like a bounced check or parking tickets. Why would I miss out on possibly getting to know a great person over an obstacle in their life which occurred prior to me being in their life? Seems rather insensitive and harsh. As with anything, there are many variables which should make a difference or not in the degree and extent of an individual's past and should be considered as such prior to just dismissing them altogether. Just as I would not want a person to judge me and assume I am fat from being lazy and sitting around eating all day without asking me or discussing the matter first, I would not assume nor judge others. Stigmas and stereotypes can be very harmful in our society. I would think as people of size, we all would understand this as we are harshly subjected to the aforementioned ourselves. This is all in my opinion of course. To each their own

March 15th, 2010, 06:01 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mark11779 Senior Member Location: Ronkonkoma Posts: 132 Thanks: 10 Thanked 54 Times in 22 Posts My Mood:	Re: PRISON Originally Posted by resilver ladies the standards should be a BIT higher don't we think??? Becki....you answered your own question.. We've allowed our moral standards and acceptance to decline. Time was when people who served time in prison were socially ostracized once they were released. Misdemeanors were more easily forgiven and if you committed a Felony you were almost NEVER accepted back into certain social circles. I cant accept someone in my life thats a Felon... I am sorry, but to commit a Felony requires conscious criminal thought. You have to really put some thought into committing one... that shows INTENT. Misdemeanors are a little different. To me some are much more forgivable than others. But we as individuals have to ask ourselves and examine what we want in our lives.. Ask yourself the Following.... "Do I want a drug Dealer for a Boy/Girlfriend and do I want them around my kids?" "Can I trust a convicted Felon in my home when I am at work?" "Can I trust a convicted criminal 100% of the time around my home, children and Loved ones? Can I be totally sure that they will never commit these acts again?" Recidivist rates among convicted Criminals are very high.. Most come out of prison better criminals than when they went in... all they do is hone their skills to get better so they wont get caught the next time. Sorry to say.... I'll never accept a Felon as a partner.... my kids are more important and I will never expose them to that...

March 15th, 2010, 01:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
resilver Senior Member Location: near New Haven Posts: 702 Thanks: 70 Thanked 79 Times in 44 Posts My Mood:	Re: PRISON Originally Posted by laurie479 Why are we comparing prison and a mental institution?? Prison is punishment for breaking the law, a mental institution is to treat someone with a disease,,,,the stigma against the mentally ill is still strong these days Not comparing them as the same as far as punishment vs. illness HOWEVER if you have been in a mental institution for schizophrenia and are not always compliant with your meds, i believe the person you are going to date deserves that information... I have mental illness in my family that is why it is an issue for me as a mom it was a question to spark discussion not to ostracize anyone...but i do honestly believe that if you are a convicted felon or have been institituionalized for mental illness, you are obligated to reveal that so that others can make an informed decision about how much of you they wish to have you their lives...

March 15th, 2010, 01:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
MartiniMadness Non Registered Guest Posts: n/a	Re: PRISON It's nice to see a man who has standards too. Originally Posted by Mark11779 Becki....you answered your own question.. We've allowed our moral standards and acceptance to decline. Time was when people who served time in prison were socially ostracized once they were released. Misdemeanors were more easily forgiven and if you committed a Felony you were almost NEVER accepted back into certain social circles. I cant accept someone in my life thats a Felon... I am sorry, but to commit a Felony requires conscious criminal thought. You have to really put some thought into committing one... that shows INTENT. Misdemeanors are a little different. To me some are much more forgivable than others. But we as individuals have to ask ourselves and examine what we want in our lives.. Ask yourself the Following.... "Do I want a drug Dealer for a Boy/Girlfriend and do I want them around my kids?" "Can I trust a convicted Felon in my home when I am at work?" "Can I trust a convicted criminal 100% of the time around my home, children and Loved ones? Can I be totally sure that they will never commit these acts again?" Recidivist rates among convicted Criminals are very high.. Most come out of prison better criminals than when they went in... all they do is hone their skills to get better so they wont get caught the next time. Sorry to say.... I'll never accept a Felon as a partner.... my kids are more important and I will never expose them to that...

March 15th, 2010, 02:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
markN I like fast women and beautiful cars! Location: South Windsor Posts: 902 Thanks: 1 Thanked 61 Times in 45 Posts My Mood:	Re: PRISON Originally Posted by Mark11779 Becki....you answered your own question.. We've allowed our moral standards and acceptance to decline. Time was when people who served time in prison were socially ostracized once they were released. Misdemeanors were more easily forgiven and if you committed a Felony you were almost NEVER accepted back into certain social circles. I cant accept someone in my life thats a Felon... I am sorry, but to commit a Felony requires conscious criminal thought. You have to really put some thought into committing one... that shows INTENT. Misdemeanors are a little different. To me some are much more forgivable than others. But we as individuals have to ask ourselves and examine what we want in our lives.. Ask yourself the Following.... "Do I want a drug Dealer for a Boy/Girlfriend and do I want them around my kids?" "Can I trust a convicted Felon in my home when I am at work?" "Can I trust a convicted criminal 100% of the time around my home, children and Loved ones? Can I be totally sure that they will never commit these acts again?" Recidivist rates among convicted Criminals are very high.. Most come out of prison better criminals than when they went in... all they do is hone their skills to get better so they wont get caught the next time. Sorry to say.... I'll never accept a Felon as a partner.... my kids are more important and I will never expose them to that... Nice post - BRAVO!

March 15th, 2010, 04:40 PM	#17 (permalink)
laurie479 ~RazzleDazzle~ Posts: 891 Thanks: 28 Thanked 65 Times in 34 Posts My Mood:	Re: PRISON Ok, I see where the confusion was for me. In Becki's original post, she said: "If someone joins AMPLE or facebook or whatever.....and he/she has just gotten out of jail, prison, a mental instiute, rehab, etc.... do they have an obligation to tell people???" My answer is, OF COURSE NOT! Why should you have to divulge this information to people on the same website as you! Facebook and Bill do not do background checks to be a member of this or any social networking site. However, Becki I believe you were actually talking about DATING this person, am I correct? That's a totally different situation and yes, I think that information should be shared..but not necessarily right away. Unless someone was incarcerated for an extremly violent crime, or any type of sexual assault, I believe it can be told when the time is right. Think about it, when first dating, you are both trying to figure out if you trust the other person....I wouldn't go blurting out my past(say I was incarcerated) so someone I just met-they may be maliscious and spread the word to everyone.

March 15th, 2010, 06:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
cpl4fun2636 Chairman of The Board Location: Willimantic Posts: 424 Thanks: 3 Thanked 49 Times in 7 Posts My Mood:	Re: PRISON People get locked up for many reasons... and many are innocent. There are many "RAPISTS" now free after years of incarceration becasue dna showed they did not commit the crime. Once a person is released the debt is paid... end of story. There is no more obligation to the public unless they are on probation or a registry... and registries are public information you can research. In fact convicted sex offenders are not allowed on facebook. In fact let me tell you a story... my partner (I am federal officer) was in fact ordered incarcerated once. (though he never served any time) he was in the midwest and his car broke down, so he paid to have it fixed. Spending that money he was unable to make his child support payment that week. He was current to date at that point. His ex took him to court for Contempt for that payment. Her lawyer argued that by spending it on the car he "willfully neglected" to follow the court ordered payment. The judge agreed and he was found guilty of contempt. The judge ordered him incarcerated sentence suspended for 2 weeks for him to make the payment. If he didn't he would serve his time. he made the payment and didn't go to prison... but on paper he is an ex con... should he have to tell people? People have a right to privacy... unless you are in some type of personal relationship with someone you are entitled to NOTHING. NOT EVEN A PROFILE PICTURE. Do i think my kids, property and life deserve an honest and worthwhile person? You are damned right.. but I will reserve my right to learn about a person and judge them for myself. If you want to pre judge them that is on you. I carry no prejudice or bias. Originally Posted by resilver I am sooo not saying!! But i will say im somewhat surprised almost SHOCKED at the attitude about someone who has been incarcerated....while i understand everyone is entitled to a second chance...if you are a convicted FELON i or have been in a mental institute it would seem that you are obligated to tell people that from the get go...maybe because of what i do for work or because im a mom i'm more cynical but dayum...ladies the standards should be a BIT higher don't we think??? Don't you all believe you deserve better than someone who has been incarcerate??? I may come off as a snob but if you had my job for 25 years you would see people for what they are and those who have been incarcerated RARELY if ever change....

March 15th, 2010, 07:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
SHEWOLF74 IS..... Location: CT SHORELINE Posts: 250 Thanks: 110 Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts My Mood:	Re: PRISON Originally Posted by cpl4fun2636 People get locked up for many reasons... and many are innocent. There are many "RAPISTS" now free after years of incarceration becasue dna showed they did not commit the crime. Once a person is released the debt is paid... end of story. There is no more obligation to the public unless they are on probation or a registry... and registries are public information you can research. In fact convicted sex offenders are not allowed on facebook. In fact let me tell you a story... my partner (I am federal officer) was in fact ordered incarcerated once. (though he never served any time) he was in the midwest and his car broke down, so he paid to have it fixed. Spending that money he was unable to make his child support payment that week. He was current to date at that point. His ex took him to court for Contempt for that payment. Her lawyer argued that by spending it on the car he "willfully neglected" to follow the court ordered payment. The judge agreed and he was found guilty of contempt. The judge ordered him incarcerated sentence suspended for 2 weeks for him to make the payment. If he didn't he would serve his time. he made the payment and didn't go to prison... but on paper he is an ex con... should he have to tell people? People have a right to privacy... unless you are in some type of personal relationship with someone you are entitled to NOTHING. NOT EVEN A PROFILE PICTURE. Do i think my kids, property and life deserve an honest and worthwhile person? You are damned right.. but I will reserve my right to learn about a person and judge them for myself. If you want to pre judge them that is on you. I carry no prejudice or bias. Great POST !!!! there are many BAD seeds out there.... but, there are also good people who got bad raps.... there are good people, NORMAL, everyday joe kinda people who made mistakes..... sometimes i think the 'rules' of law making take some things TOO far.... for example --- the 17yo football player a few years ago.... who got the BJ from the 15 y/o girl.... it was consensual, and he got 10 years, and had to register as a sex offender..... that is just OVERKILL! There are too many stories like that..... lets look at the extenuating circumstances, and stop making 'blanket' sentences....

March 15th, 2010, 09:26 PM	#20 (permalink)
misspatty232 Firecracker Boom Boom Location: central NY, near syracuse Posts: 624 Thanks: 148 Thanked 50 Times in 34 Posts	Re: PRISON i refuse to believe that people cannot be rehabilitated. and i refuse to believe it because i have known convicted felons who were rehabilitated. im not going to go into details. but if i was a felon who did my time and changed my life, i would keep it a secret until i knew a could trust a person not to tell my business to the world. ESPECIALLY after reading these posts!!! i understand how uncomfortable it makes people...but you cant just write people off! it depends on the crime and whether that person takes responsibility for their life. if someone makes horrible mistakes when they are 19 or 20, and they serve their time(maybe get a degree, contribute to society, make amends) are you gonna say they should be ostracized when they are 50 or 60?? life isnt so black & white.

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